Thursday, 2 September 2010

"Why is there Crap in my Coconut Milk?" - Tropical Sun's Perplexing Reply

I have written open letters to a number of companies since I started blogging, primarily to complain about ingredients or deception. Nearly all of them failed to reply. I listed them in Roll Call of Shame: Companies Who Don't Listen.

When someone takes the time to reply, however absurd their rationale, I feel obliged to engage on a civilised level. Marks and Spencer particularly distinguished themselves by being willing to continue a debate about the sugar in their pre-cooked chicken (Why is there Sugar in my Chicken?) and Julian Graves briefly and clumsily corresponded about their sale of sugar-laden products (Julian Graves Responds to 'Sugar Pushers' Post.) Both deserve at least some credit for that.

So I must take my hat off to Tropical sun for yesterday's reply to my open letter a few weeks back (Dear Tropical Sun - "Why is there Crap in My Coconut Milk?"), complaining about the sudden appearance of sundry additives in their coconut milk.

A reminder of what I said:

Dear Tropical Sun,

I have been a big fan of your coconut milk for a long time now, and was dismayed when your ingredients changed from being pure, to being decidedly impure.

I eat coconut milk precisely because it does not contain things like starchy carbohydrate, so the idea that you have adulterated the product with corn starch seems like madness. Was it commercial pressures that led to your decision, or a genuine (albeit in my view, misguided) desire to create a better product for the consumer?

Perhaps I am in the minority in caring about these subtleties, but in a world where awareness of additives and a desire to eat real food is growing at a fast pace, your decision appears to be a retrograde step. My blog readers and I will be interested to read your response.

Regards,
Methuselah

Here was their reply, yesterday:

Thank you for your feedback on our Coconut Milk. We take all comments about our products seriously and would like to reassure you that the content in our Coconut Milk has not changed.

The demand for the product in the last few years has increased globally, shipment times have increased so it has now been necessary to add regulators / stabilisers to keep the quality of the content consistent wherever it is sold in the world. Contrary to what you have suggested, these have not been added to alter the taste in any way nor is it for profit reasons. Also the ingredient list on the can was updated also due to regulatory requirement.

We at Tropical Sun value our customer feedback and hope that you are satisfied with this response and will continue to use our products.

For further information about Tropical Sun, please visit our website at www.tropicalsunfoods.com

Regards

Kev, Customer Services

I won't insult your intelligence by pointing out the manifestly contradictory statements in this reply. Instead, I will skip straight to my response, which I will also email to Kev, along with a link to this post.

Dear Kev,

Many thanks for your reply. You would be surprised how many companies lack the courtesy to respond.

I have a few additional questions, which I hope you will be able to answer.

In the first paragraph, you reassure me that
"the content in our Coconut Milk has not changed" - yet in the following paragraph confirm that "it has now been necessary to add regulators / stabilisers." You can imagine how that might be confusing.

Later in the same paragraph, you say "
the ingredient list on the can was updated also due to regulatory requirement." This also suggests a change.

The burning questions are:

1. When did you start adding the regulators and stabilisers?
2. When did you change the label?

In other words, how long was I using your coconut milk, thinking it did not contain any additives?

I would also like to pick up the point about corn starch:

3. Is the corn starch added to improve the taste/texture - or is it related to global shipment demands?

Finally:

4. Why do other manufacturers like Dunn's River not require the same additives?

I hope you will continue to correspond on this matter.

Sincerely,
Methuselah.

-----

It's important companies understand the strength of feeling around issues like this. I think they just assume I am some crackpot, with entirely unrepresentative views.

So if you agree with me, please drop a comment, however small, onto the post. I will wait a couple of days before emailing Kev at Tropical Sun so that (I hope) we have a 'comment petition' to reinforce that there plenty of people who are concerned about this issue.

This will also serve another purpose: I have just installed a new comment system, which I hope will make it easier to comment - let me know how that works for you.

See Also:
Dear Tropical Sun - "Why is there Crap in My Coconut Milk?"
Tropical Sun Replies - "Our Additives are Okay"
After Much Searching... the Perfect Coconut Cream
Campaigns

Comments (46)

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Thank you! I can't find a single brand of coconut milk without additives where I live. Grocery shopping as a paleo eater is hard enough without companies deciding to change their recipes.
Have to agree that it is difficult to find coconut milk (or any products...) without additives, now that I have found one, it is a bit scary to think the companies may be indeed using these additives and not listing them as implied above.
Metuselah and Gil - I was equally disappointed by the lack of pure 100% coconut product available locally. So I started looking for a pure 100% coconut product, and looking... I am happy to report I've finally found it! I almost hesitate to share this broadly because I don't know how much supply they have but here goes:

Aroy-D 100% Coconut Milk: https://www.philamfood.com/AROY-D-COCONUT-MILK-8....
Aroy-D 100% Coconut Cream: https://www.philamfood.com/AROY-D-COCONUT-CREAM-3...

You may be able to find elsewhere online but this store had the best price I could find. Not only do these not have any additives they are also NOT canned. The taste, texture, quality is EXCELLENT! I highly recommend them!! Sorry I just cleaned out their stock. I might have to call and see if I can get a bulk discount.... If anyone does please let me know. I hope you get to enjoy this!
2 replies · active 760 weeks ago
Thanks Henry - someone else mentioned this brand on the last post. I am hunting it down in the UK. I like that it's not tinned.
I live in Dubai and have been searching for a good coconut milk but seem to have the same problem as most of you when visiting the major supermarkets (we even have our own branch of Waitrose out here!). I found Aroy-D in a supermarket but it was tinned and I'm not sure if there were additives or not.

I need to stop being so lazy and find some ethnic stores, I'm sure I can find some quality coconut milk there. There is also the possibility of making your own coconut milk but this will obviously be more time consuming.

I will be in London for most of October, if anyone knows where to get the Aroy-D there, that would be very helpful.
Why ruin a great thing? I'm throwing my hat in hoping you get a better reply.
Hi,

I do agree that the representative could have been more more clear about what he/she was trying to say, but I think I understand what there saying contrary to your tentative reply. Its obvious that awhile back, they added stabilizers to increase the shelf life of the product, its unclear when. However, they made it clear that they had these stabilizers without listing it in the ingredients so it is not in contradiction with their statement that "content in our Coconut Milk has not changed.". Meaning that when they added the stabilizers to the ingredient list it had already contained them.

I would clarify on when they added them in and just to verify what I just stated.
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
Hi Bri,

I guess the confusing part derives from the use of the phrase "it has now been necessary" - this suggests that in the recent past they have made a change, regardless of whether they reported that change on the label. I think he is referring to my previous post, in which I suggest that Mrs M and I noticed a difference in the taste and texture when the labelling changed a month or two ago. Perhaps he is saying that there has not been a recent change.

M.
Excellent blog, Methuselah.

I’m following this back and forth over the coconut milk with great interest, as I did the Marks and Sparks’ sugared chicken thing. I suspect that there are a great many more people who are concerned by the issues of additives and accurate labeling than can be bothered (or who have the time) to write to the companies concerned, so please keep up the good work on all our behalf… I do feel obliged to make my voice heard on this one, though – let this be my contribution to the Comment Petition!
This Aroy-D Coconut Milk also is my favourite and the best thing is that I can find it in a grocery story near where I live (germany) for a reasonable price (1,09€).

But I would rather spend more money on something that I know is 100% pure than less for food with odd additives. The problem is we are becoming more and more a society that prefers buying cheap rather than quality products, could this be the reason companies need to "prepare" their products for enoug income?
How disappointing it is when companies think they have to add in gunk to their products because demand increased. I hope these messages on your blog make them take the issue seriously, Methuselah.

100% natural (and organic) please!
Those confusing Answers lead me to the question: how reliable are the lists of ingredients on the labels in general?

Can I trust the label, that there is realy nothing else in the can?

Because of my allergies some additives could make my sick...
I have many allergies to 'almost-foods' (that's my word for foods with additives, listed or not) and abhor this kind of marketing. Do they think we are ALL junk-food junkies?
Joe Matasic's avatar

Joe Matasic · 760 weeks ago

Good job I would like to know what's really in there.
I had to search high and low for a coconut milk that had no additives...it's so frustrating to see yet another brand bite the dust and become "contaminated". Additives suck!
Hm. I use their creamed coconut. The label says it's 'clean', but i'm not so sure about that now anymore. Maybe it's an 'old' label.
1 reply · active 760 weeks ago
Yes - until a few months ago, the label suggested no additives on the cans we were buying too. Then suddenly it changed. That was what prompted my original post. Maybe the Netherlands is slightly lagging in the supply chain and you will get the new tins soon....
Yes the mis guiding on the labeling is a HUGE issue, but so is the focus on WHAT they are putting into their product: corn aka a genetically modified grain that is abrasive to the human body to digest and extremely health hazardous alongside wheat, alcohol, and soy.

That's my concern... that they choose to directly harm their customers by causing weight gain, allergies due to the grain inulin fiber, skin issues, diabetes due to the grain insulin spike, and the list goes on.
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
and on...well said Bob!
I am totally on-board with you on this! I would by any brand that does not have a starch or sugar in it. My brief exposure to your blog, thus far, also inspires me to begin being more insistent and, indeed, more militant if necessary with my food sources. Mostly I eat real food, though, but I do use canned coconut milk almost daily. The brand I have available here (Thai Kitchen, Organic) still seems to be "pure" enough (coconut milk, water, guar gum). Hmmm, I don't know much about guar gum. ...
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
Yes, guar gum and xantham gum are two ingredients I instinctively avoid but have never really looked into.
I just wish companies' customer services departments would give straightforward answers. If you changed it, just say yes we changed it and here's why. I hate the PR runaround even more than I hate additives in my coconut milk.
percheron's avatar

percheron · 760 weeks ago

I would hope companies begin favoring solutions which retain the "wholeness" of the food, rather than cop out to additives and stabilizers. It is a sad commentary on both consumers and producers that it is so difficult to find truly healthy alternatives.

Having stated the above, the trend is toward paying more for quality food. I hope that the trend starts to impact producers so that perhaps they afford localized plants that minimize the ship time and shelf life of the foods they produce.

Keep up the great work of confronting this issue.
I would not buy this product unless they stopped using additives.
I just write to let you know that the link that you provide for evidence of Sugar Addiction in your pages is not longer working: http://www.sfn.org/index.cfm?pagename=brainBriefi...
Do you have the PDF still available?
Take care!
I am certainly not buying Kev's "nor is it for profit" line. No one begrudges the making of a profit, only the way that profit is made. I hope Kev offers a candid response to your follow up and top marks to him for actually responding in the first place!
Please add me to the petition...
me too!

It is important to show companies, that there are people who CARE about things and it is important to tell them
if something is wrong!
It is like in a restaurant: if the meals was not satisfying, but one does not dare to tell this to the waiter after he
asked if everything was fine, they will never have the chance to improve or change something..
I guess Kev has also not realised this completely, otherwise he would have made himself more thoughts
about his answer.
Nevertheless, nice that the company responded anyway!

And: very nice blog! keep on!
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
If we have to put this coconut milk in cans and ship it over the whole world (which I think is insane and thoughtless), why then don't we ship the whole coconuts?
What I don't understand is why other companies can ship internationally WITHOUT adding a bunch of extra items including corn?? Just doesn't make sense. I have not found anything locally that doesn't have guar gum, so I have accepted that for now.

I guess the question remains, what portion of the population buys the most coconut milk? If it is people who do not read ingredients and prefer consistency over additives, we are in trouble. But if the majority of folks buying coconut milk are conscious eaters, then the companies will have to respond correctly. So we just need to convert more folks to Paleo me thinks :).
Add me to the petition please, Tom.
Please add me to the petition as well. Quite disturbing to think that the actual content was possibly changed without a change to the labeling. Bad enough that they added junk but to not declare it, inexcusable.
I find it frustrating that it is so hard to find foods without rubbish added. I've had to give up on rubbish-free coconut milk - I just can't find any so we hardly use it at the moment instead.

I understand that companies think people want their purchases to look like they were picked/made earlier that day, even when it has clearly come thousands of miles, and that to not add things to preserve it in that condition would reduce sales. But lots of us don't care if our food changes colour a bit or separates etc as long as it is still the original product without rubbish. We also have purchasing power. Does that first group even exist or has it been created by companies leading people to think it is possible to have products like that by adding rubbish and using misguiding labels.

I've linked this on my blog's Twitter account and will get something up for one of my posts next week to raise awareness further (though there's a chance that'll be after you send your response).
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
Thank you Ammi - much appreciated. I emailed Tropical Sun this morning, but it took them a week to reply last time, so you probably have a few days before Kev gets round to looking at this. Nice blog, by the way!
I guess it was good they actually responded, but too bad nothing in his reply really made any sense.
I was previously buying Tropical Sun from a local Afro-Caribbean store - They were selling it 3 tins for £1. I too was dismayed when I saw that they had started adding crap. The only crap free brand they sell now is Dunn's River at 69p per tin. I recently found that Dunn's River is currently selling in my local supermarket at 47p per can, which leaves me in the dilemma of save cash but spend my pennies with evil global nasties, or stick with my local and pay the extra!
Kevin Costello's avatar

Kevin Costello · 758 weeks ago

Does anyone have experience with either frozen or powdered?
http://www.philamfood.com/LUCIA-FROZEN-COCONUT-MI... http://www.philamfood.com/CHAOKOH-COCONUT-MILK-PO...

I’m told that you can get bags of frozen milk at the Asian markets and that most are unadulterated.
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
Kevin - I was told this too and have been meaning to investigate. I have found some very interesting coconut products in Asian shops before. I plan to do a post about the many forms it can be bought in, when I get time.
I just checked my pantry - I have 4 or 5 different brands and they all have some kind of added crap. If you can't find a clean source without additives, what's worse: preservatives, guar/xanthum, or corn starch?

FYI: Here is the label from my Aroy-D cans - Ingredients: Coconut Milk 55%, Water, Potassium Metabiisulphite As Preservative. Allergy Advice: Contains Suophur Dioxide http://bit.ly/cbmyM2 - So I guess the preservative free 100% coconut stuff is only in the tetra boxes.
The fear is that there are NO brands without crap, only brands who have not yet complied with labelling laws. Still no reply from Tropical Sun.
This looks like it may be a good one:
http://www.thai-food-online.co.uk/products/canned...
1 reply · active 758 weeks ago
laubot - wow, this does look like the real deal! I will order some. Thanks for the tip.
Definitely agree with you, although even if it was 'pure,' I still wouldn't use it. All aluminum cans are lined with a plastic containing BPA (there are a few sold in other countries that are starting to eliminate it, but so far as I know this holds true for the US). Until I can not get a BPA (or other harmful additive) soup, I'm not using any industrially canned goods.
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
Native Forest coconut milk is in BPA free cans.
INGREDIENTS: Certified Organic Coconut Milk (Organic Coconut, Water, GuarGum).

Their ad copy implies that the guar gum is a completely natural additive:

In a fertile coastal valley, devoted Thailand farmers have achieved organiccertification of their traditional coconut crop. Organic coconuts aregenerally smaller than their conventional counterparts, but the organicallymanaged trees are more drought-resistant, and their soil is more rich andmoisture retentive. We press the meat of these fresh, organic coconuts,yielding an oil-rich extract that is mixed only with filtered water anda tiny amount (less than 1%) of guar gum from the seeds of the guar plant.A staple of Thai and many Asian cuisines, coconut milk lends rich andcreamy goodness to classic regional dishes. Perfect in soups, curries,sauces, desserts, and beverages, Native Forest Organic Coconut Milk maybe the most delicious coconut milk you have ever tasted.

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